Something about losing games to Penn State causes you to want to fire the coaches eh?

Fire Zook after the Penn State loss.
Fire Weber after this loss.

I agree.

Add in Jolette Law, and hopefully Mike Thomas can pull the trifecta this year.

The worst part is that a lot of fans seem to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome in regards to Weber

Profs in the Physics Dept. have started using the career arc of Bruce Weber as their primary example of the concept of Inertia instead of “know when you’re in a car and you keep going forward when the cars stops!?”

I think we’ve seen the ceiling on Bruce Weber coaching with Bruce Weber recruited players. It’s the second round. And while that’s not an easy accomplishment by any means, I expect more as a fan/alum and even if it means we have to go through a stinker year (or three) to find it…I think it’s worth the gamble. I like the guy…but I hate the offense more.

” At Illinois, if you consistently lose to Penn State, you get fired.”

This.

Love this blog post!

If Illinois fans are content with being a middle-of-the-road Big Ten program, Bruce is definitely the right guy.

If your sights are set higher, like me, a change is needed. Sorry Bruce. My expectations are much higher than what you can give us.

I hate to say it but I’ve come to the same conclusion. I think it is time to move on. As Robert says, things just aren’t working.
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And I really like Weber. Love his values and what he stands for. I think he’s a solid guy, great citizen, good mentor and role model for life. But It’s time for the program to go a new direction.
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I wish more of the Weber haters would take a page from Robert. The vitriol that you read and hear from some fans re: Weber is disgusting.
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Let’s go get Brad Stevens and be done with it. Oh… wait… he’s not black! I forgot, according to 2 of the UI Trustees we should be limited to hiring African American coaches now for football and basketball. Why hire based on the content of someone’s character when you can just make it easy and hire based on skin color?

Maybe your best post ever, including all the phenomenal work you’ve done with unfathomable hours of research and writing on the football program.
It’s not about who can make the most cynical comment or sling the best insult regarding the coach or a specific player. The product on the floor is just inferior to what it should be.
Well said.

Spot on as usual, Robert.

I don’t even know why this is even controversial or debatable. If you are 6-7 in the last 13 games vs PSU, that is the basketball PSU, then you should be canned and the next guy is up.

When it is your team, your recruits and your program, after 9 years, with a golden opportunity staring you in the face, then either win or be gone.

This team has no real identity. They play to their competition so when we play tOSU we play like a team possessed. And when we play PSU, we play like basketballs are poisonous. It’s almost as if each game our jersey changes from orange and blue to orange and blue and (insert opposing team color). If you have no identity to be proud of, how do you get motivated?
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I don’t know how big of an issue this is but BW seems dead set on playing seniors even when they shouldn’t be in. He was addicted to our underwhelming 3 last year and it took him a long time to pull Tyler Griffey. When SM played 30 minutes when he should have been playing no more than 20 it made me thing BW is back at it…
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Also, how do you come out of 9 days off and don’t come prepared for the leagues worst team? It seems like the more BW can get his hands on the guys in practice the more they end up not doing well.

I’m a Weber supporter, but your post is very reasonable, Robert. I’m starting to think a change needs to happen soon as well. You say that even if the Illini make the Sweet 16, Weber should go. I don’t think we’ll have to worry about that dilemma. Illinois isn’t making the Sweet 16 this year, just like there was no way in hell they were making it last year. This team isn’t good enough to shoot well for two games in a row, and that’s what it would take to get past the first weekend of the tournament.

Also, if possible, you must devote an entire entry one day of thorough analysis into why, exactly, Penn State has our number. Seriously. Why can’t we beat Penn State? I want answers.

I’ll give you two answers as to why we can’t beat Penn State. 1. Ed DeChellis. 2. Taylor Battle. Oh, wait a second….Nevermind. I’m out of answers.

If you saw the end of the IU at Nebraska game, IU had a diminuitive point guard drive into the lane against bigger, better athletes and get off a non-threatening circus shot. I saw nothing different last night. THAT PLAY DOESN’T WORK 99% OF THE TIME UNLESS YOU ARE TYUS EDNEY. If the play was drawn up for BP(4)3 and the opposing rookie coach amazingly goes to the lab and comes up with a counter-idea to actually put pressure on him, you need a better second option. (Disclaimer: I’m the one who was predicting that the #0 would get raised to the rafters after this season. I think Sammy’s heart and leadership have certainly made an impact this season, but the physical limitations and 3 games off dictate that we needed an “oh nice pass!” moment to end that game.)

Before reading your excellent post, Robert, I was moaning and groaning with my son. He has been on the “Time to go, Bruce” bus for 3 years. I just arrived there recently. Anyway, here were my comments to him.
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It would certainly be interesting to be Mike Thomas, researching young and/or established coaches, trying to figure out who your next coach would be in the event that (for whatever reason) you needed a new coach next year. I’ve been saying for a while that with the 2013 and 2014 Illinois classes absolutely loaded, we need a coach, a style of play and an expectation of success such that as many of them as possible will sign on with the Illini. While I think that Bruce is actually better now than he was a few years ago, I am less satisfied with him now than I was a few years ago. Then he was sort of new and finding his way with his guys. He had recruits coming in and things would get better. And they have. But not by enough and this bs of losing to PSU is just absurd. They are not bad, but there is just no way that they should be our most comparable B1G opponent.
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So back to being Mike Thomas, how does one figure out what to do when presumably contacting other coaches and/or their agents before letting your current coach go is a problem? For example, don’t know if we would really, really want Brad Stevens of Butler, but say Mike did. What happens if he calls Stevens’ agent? I have no idea. Certainly agents don’t survive for long if they can’t handle confidential info. But if MT was thinking “I really only want to dump Bruce for a proven coach, not an up and comer” and so he didn’t want to drop Bruce and THEN start exploring, he wanted to start exploring first . . . well, its an interesting dilemma.
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I’m at the point where I am sadly with you. Time for Bruce to go. He is a nice guy, but he’s a B- student of the game, when we are a historic Top 20 team. That means that we should have an A level coach, not a B. Too bad, but that’s how I see it. And Bruce isn’t going anywhere, so its on MT.
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Although I am a long-time Weber supporter and suspicious of the concept of ‘Fire Weber’ posts right after a big loss, I have to admit that I am starting to think it is time for a change as well. At the very least, you have made a much more compelling case to me than those who spout off all that ‘Mr. Mid-Major’ crap.

I do think that there is a strong case for keeping Weber as well. Although he probably doesn’t deserve 100% credit for the 2005 team, he doesn’t deserve 0% credit either, and I would argue significantly greater than 50%. So often I see the anti-Weber arguments start by throwing out 2005 as solely attributable to Bill Self, which sounds plausible, but is really just because the case against him is much harder to refute if you toss out his first three years with the program.

As a defensive coach, he really is one of the best out there. Our ranks in defensive efficiency as measured by Ken Pomeroy are stellar over his tenure (the equivalent of Vic Koenning in football), hitting the top 25 in 7 of 9 seasons (and the top 5 twice). This has to be taken into account, and is why I can’t have a serious conversation with someone who dismisses Weber as a bad coach out of hand.

But, on offense, the excuses just aren’t there anymore. When we slid to #111 in offensive efficiency in 2007, I told myself that it was a talent issue. After all, this was the coach who had presided over one of the top 5 offenses of the entire decade in 2005. Jerrance Howard came in and I was sure that the offense would return to the top 10 once our better players hit their prime. But then it kept happening. #83 in 2008, #98 in 2009, #65 in 2010, #33 in 2011, and #102 again this year. At some point, I have to admit that there is a trend.

Ultimately, I think Weber is an above-average coach, but likely not an elite one. I still maintain that it is hardly implausible that he would have another Elite 8 or Final 4 run in him if he stayed for another 10 years. He did it once, and there are worse coaches than Weber who have had tournament success. So to me, it’s a tough case. But for the first time, I do find myself starting to wonder. I think if we make the NCAAs this year and perform reasonably well, it would be hard to fire him. But if we miss the tournament this year, or don’t have a stellar season next year (and I mean top 10), I might finally have to admit that it is time to look elsewhere.

btw, Pittsburgh, your comment (The worst part is that a lot of fans seem to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome in regards to Weber) was fabulous !!

Steve… I was thinking the exact same thing as you regarding Stevens: Can we say, “We’ll drop Weber immediately if we can get Stevens. Otherwise, we’ll give Weber one more chance”?

Not sure if that’s a plausible plan. I’m guessing it’s not.

And I thought that ALIONEye had something to do with being an Illini fan. I guess I was misled.

great post, robert. i have gone from loving weber, to believing he could get it done (hating the weber haters), to realizing that he just doesn’t have it, to joining the haters. and i understand the questions regarding the vitriol, but some people should understand the passion that some of us have for illini basketball. i grew up watching jordan’s bulls and henson’s illini. i come from a family of sports lovers and am a sports lover, in general. but, it’s always been basketball at the top for me. i played the sport in junior high and high school (badly, i may add) and watched every game i could (which, growing up without cable or satellite wasn’t a whole lot). i was out on our 5X3 strip of concrete under our rim practicing my dribbling in the snow. the illini have always been my first love, and illini basketball is at the pinnacle.
i say all that to say this: i feel like bruce weber has ruined my first love, and that makes me very angry and frustrated. i don’t think he is a horrible coach, and the recruiting has improved. i think he has stopped being so stubborn and has made some recent adjustments that have surprised me. still, i don’t think it has been enough. and, i think that his biggest issue is that he just (for whatever reason) does not command the respect of his players and hasn’t for years. how do you come off a victory against osu and 9 days rest/practice, and say “I didn’t prepare them well enough”? how could you need a last second shot against psu to send it to overtime and have your star player say “It was kind of scrambled in the huddle for us to figure it out. There were a lot of communication problems”? it’s just so frustrating to me to continue to have these problems year in and year out. the occasional player that just won’t listen? sure, that happens to every coach. having your players continue to struggle to be motivated, to understand the offense or the play called, to play hard for you, etc? nope, that’s entirely on the coach.
bruce has to answer for this, and he has not. he continues to make more in a year than i will likely make in my entire lifetime, all the while destroying the outlet i love the most. HATE? yep

cpbill,
I don’t understand your comment. I see this board as being filled with Illinois fans. Some have a glass half full and some have a glass half empty. Don’t think anyone’s glass is actually full, unfortunately.
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I think that it is fair to have a discussion of possibilities. That seems like life to me. For example, people marry for life. Yet, I believe that the average marriage lasts 7 years. People change and they reevaluate. Some divorce bitterly. Some divorce amicably. Some never need the conversation, everything goes beautifully. Others struggle, but reconcile.
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We have had Bruce for 9 years. A long time in life, a long time in basketball. It seems worth a review. To me that is fair. A fan should care about that. Some should be all for continuity, some should be for separation. If there aren’t two sides, then there doesn’t need to be a conversation; things are either so good or so bad that you don’t need to talk. I submit that things are neither so good or so bad that this is a non-valid topic.
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So, on this site, I see people having a civil, thoughtful conversation. Is that wrong? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it is the best possible result. Not hiding our heads in the sand, singing loudly so that we can’t hear the wheels squeaking, not yelling “Fire Bruce” so that we can’t hear his supporters. Just having a conversation as people who care will do.
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Today, we are in first place in the B1G, with a 15-4 record. Better than I expected and I find that very satisfying. But we just laid an egg so bad that my TV screen is still blurry. And the schedule gets harder and we may not be ready to handle it. Looking forward, the statisticians like Ken Pom and Sagarin have us at #42 and #46 respectively. That is bad. We do have legitimate reasons to expect to be top 20, not third 20. That promotes conversation.
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Sorry that you don’t agree that it is fair to have concerns.

Weird. Instead of moving on this morning, I’m actually getting more agitated. As I watched the game last night and 1) saw Nnanna’s (6 minutes) hustle lead to one of the very few nice fast breaks we’ve had ALL YEAR and 2) kept thinking isn’t Myke (5 minutes) a guy who can supposedly score, I was reminded of this preseason post:
http://alioneye.com/2011/08/24/did-you-hear-weber-will-use-a-deeper-bench/
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This team has scored 60 or less points in 4 of the last 5 games (thanks BP3 for the one outlier). A mere 2 weeks before that we scored 48 points twice in 3 games. I understand the feeling from some that playing 8 or 9 guys at least 12 minutes can disrupt the flow. But we have no flow. It’s either the 3 pointers are falling or they aren’t.
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And thanks Jeremiah for the Pomery stats. You’ve put out there the bad (offense) and good (defense).

Maybe I’m just not seeing it, but who are these “half” that are on Weber’s side? Sure, maybe 2 years ago that was accurate, but I’m just not seeing it now. The natives are restless. From my view, most people are at the very least open to a change, and it’s probably more like “ready for a change”. Outside of the extreme vocal minority on some web-message boards, who is really fighting this?

When coaches like Patrick Chambers take over at programs like Penn State, they almost always talk about “changing the culture.” As well they should. Well, I think we have a culture problem at Illinois. Currently, it’s a culture of timidness, a culture of being afraid to lose, a culture of not being the aggressor nearly as often as we need to be. How many times in the last several years have we been outworked/outplayed against teams more aggressive than us? Western Kentucky in the tourney, Dayton in the NIT, Bradley in Vegas, last night in Happy Valley. You know what I’m tired of? I’m tired of us not “matching up well” with teams who are very aggressive and play hard. Why shouldn’t you be able to match up against that.
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Illinois is not a basketball program that people fear. Missouri is. I would know, since that game scared the crap out of me from the beginning of the season until the second it ended. Missouri scares you because you know that if you’re team doesn’t show up ready to play, they’ll get embarrassed. The Illini these days don’t embarrass anyone. They used to, but they don’t anymore. We embarrassed Wake Forest December 1, 2004. We beat Ohio State last week, but we didn’t embarrass them. Brandon Paul had a Pistol Pete Maravich night and we still only won by five! The Buckeyes are going to embarrass us in Columbus February 21.
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Nobody fears the Illini anymore. That’s a culture issue. And I think Weber is probably at the root of it. He hates to lose. Which really isn’t a problem, except that I think he’s afraid to lose. That’s not good. He’s so afraid to lose that he insists on playing seniors for huge minutes, even when they’re playing horribly (Sam last night, Brain Randle his senior year, Tisdale his senior year, McBride his senior year.) When you play young guys, there’s a chance you might get blown out. But look at Izzo. He’s not afraid to lose. MSU loses a handful of nonconference games every year. And guess what? Izzo doesn’t care. He keeps scheduling UNC and Duke and Texas every year.
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I think Weber is afraid of losing. You can see it in his coaching, you can see it in his scheduling and you can see it when he talks about upcoming games. (“Penn State is always tough for us… we might lose…”) As a results, the Illini as a team are afraid to lose. We need to change the culture.

Great comments, Joe. So good, in fact, that I edited in our work-around (put a period for a paragraph) so that your comments are easier to read.
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Some day I will figure out how to fix that within this WordPress theme. But for the 1,129th consecutive day, today is not that day.

Yes, separately the paragraphs. Thanks Robert. I tried to do that and failed.

I don’t know how or why but for some reason reading your article and reading these comments has somehow made me feel better.
Maybe I’m finally over the Weber is clean and a nice guy thing and we don’t have to worry while he’s at the helm.
for whatever reason I’m ok.
I’m ok with getting beat by 10 this Sunday when we play Wisconsin. I’m ok with going to IU and getting blown out because now, and I think maybe this is the reason I’m ok, I know that this is the last season for Bruce.
A change is coming. It’s inevitable.
good luck where ever you end up Bruce. I really mean it. I do.
I know who ever comes in won’t change things overnight but I’m ok with that.
I just want to see my school try something different.

This is an excellent post, although in all honesty, it could have been just two sentences: “At Illinois, if you lose consistently to Penn St., you get fired. The end.”
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Just because a really good coach left us once doesn’t mean we have to stay in the equivalent of a bad marriage. I don’t understand why our fans are so hesitant to hold our program to the extremely low standard of “Better than the middle of the pack in the Big Ten.”

Brad Stevens. It is a no-brainer. Do it now before the 2013 class commits.

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I’ll just never understand how a ‘motion offense’ is supposed to get into any kind of rhthym to get a play off when the coach consistently calls a timeout with only 4 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Maddening. Most good plays that are drawn up take more than 3 seconds to develop (I’m removing 1 second as “noise” – like after the inbounds ball is caught and the play gathers himself, etc).
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That time-out he always calls with only 4 seconds left…….gonna be the death of me. Micromanager: That’s the one word that comes to mind when I think of Weber. The CONSTANT barking from the bench. I won’t miss that when it’s gone.

Do we actually have a realistic chance of getting Brad Stevens? Honest question for you all. I thought I heard once that the only job he’d leave Butler for is Indiana. Is that purely speculation?

Wow, 27 comments and only 1 of those saying Weber should stay (I guess that is what he was saying).
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Is it wrong to in some way hope that they have a mediocre finish to the year so we can just move on with a new coach? This is starting to feel like Illini Football/Ron Zook post 2010 season. Everyone knew (or expected) the ultimate conclusion of that but it was Guenther’s experiment extended the situation. Could happen in bball too.

Goob, couldn’t agree more.
stevens is an Indiana guy; IU looks like they have Crean for awhile, same with Painter at PU, ND has Brey and it doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere.
wouldn’t it be cool to see Stevens pull a Matta? leave his home state for a rival and enjoy life stealing recruits from his home state not to mention the fertile grounds of chicago.
let’s make the move sooner than later.

illinibacker: I can’t say it’s wrong to hope for a mediocre finish for the reason you mentioned, because I secretly hoped for that in football so that we could move on from Zook. But I can’t root (secretly or otherwise) for the Illini to ever lose in basketball. The losses hurt me too much. I’m not myself today after last night’s game. I’m not the Weber supporter I once was, but I’ll hope he wins each game until he’s done as Illini coach.

Joe-
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If Stevens was the target, I don’t think there would be a better year than this one. Butler is 11-9, so he’s probably realizing he’s reached his ceiling with the Bulldogs. No Indiana jobs will open soon, so he doesn’t really have many opportunities to move on. Except for maybe a job in Champaign only 2 hours from Indy.
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But if I had to guess, he wouldn’t be interested. I think he stays at Butler and only leaves for a job like in-state Indiana or top-5-job Duke.

I just can’t see Stevens leaving Butler. I’m not even sure who would constitute a top five list for potential replacements, but I suppose that’s another post for another time.

Let’s see what type of magic Shaka Smart has this March. (Sorry, had to do it.)

Very well written article, as usual. Do not have much time to read many blogs but am glad I found yours.

You presented this dilemma better than I have seen so far and obviously shown people the light so to speak. Have been wanting this change for awhile now.

It has been said that the team left the last timeout confused. If you are a coach on a top level you know how to present what you want to accomplish in a clear manner.

Anyway most of what I wanted to say has been said. On Stevens, maybe money and the right presentation, something along the lines of bringing a program back to glory and here is a very nice raise.

Kudos Robert
Cheers

Robert, you’re so level headed with football, but with basketball you seem to view everything with negativity. Why can’t you look at hoops with the same objectivity?

Am I happy we lost to Penn State again? Of course not, but it’s not the end of the world. You say “it’s just not working”…we’re 15-4, 4-2 and tied for 2nd in the best conference in the country. What do more do you want? Yes, losing to Penn State sucks, but sometimes teams lose to teams they shouldn’t and sometimes they beat teams they should lose to, like Ohio State. But giving no credit to Weber when they win and placing all the blame on him when they lose is just ridiculous.

There are several things that frustrate me about Weber’s teams, but the fact is that he’ll have a banner hanging alongside Lou Henson’s at Assembly Hall some day (check the criteria for the banners, he meets all of them except for the ‘must not be an active coach’ one). In fact, his numbers across the board are better than Henson’s (win %, Big Ten titles, Final Fours are tied. He only trails in total wins and that BC he hasn’t coached as long.) I love Lou, but why do people clamor for Henson’s name to grace the Assembly Hall court, but want Weber fired at the same time?

Then, of course, there’s the assumption that we’d automatically get an upgrade if Weber is fired. As we found out with football, getting a big name is not as easy as snapping your fingers. Brad Stevens is not walking through that door, and even if he were, I’m not convinced he’s guaranteed to take us to new heights. Don’t like our mid-major coach? What do you think Stevens is?

I’m sure I’ll be labeled a Weber merry-man after this, which is not the case. I just don’t see the point in overreacting after a bad loss (our firs this year by the way). Finishing in the top-5 in the league and making it to the 3rd round of the NCAAs (or 2nd round, whatever you want to call it now) is not the end of the world. Should we be better than we have been as of late? Maybe, but remember that it can also get much, much worse.

Robert, I am new to reading the blog, but I share many of the same sentiments. I know Bruce has his positives, and I believe in many of those, but the PSU game leaves no room for positivity.

One item I wanted to throw out there that drives me nuts about the Illini under Bruce is this; Out of bounds plays are not viewed as scoring opportunities. Our opponents regularly get easy buckets on baseline out of bounds plays. We lolly-gag around until throwing it past halfcourt or to whoever is the tallest guy on the court. I consider this similar to the special teams disadvantage that Zook’s coaching placed on the football team. We are required to work harder for 4-6 pts a night because of this difference.

And this has nothing to do with the players. This is one of many aspects of the game that has gone unchanged in Bruce’s 9 years at the helm. Can anybody explain to this philosophy to me?

it’s interesting that the Henson is coming up. They are very similar in a lot of ways. Their teams pretty much never overachieve, but they collect awful losses (being upset in the NCAA tournament by the Austin Peays of the world was a Henson specialty). They have really impressive sounding overall records, but are not innovators or incredible recruiters. They both had Final Four teams that were absurdly loaded with talent, to the point that whether not they actually did an elite job coaching those teams (vs. merely staying out of their way) is debatable. And it took the fan base at large longer to wake up to their ceiling than it should have.

I don’t think Stevens is coming (for the reasons listed above), but what about somebody like Larry Brown? A proven teacher, will command respect from the players, should be a good recruiter and is desperate for a job. He supposedly would have taken the Penn State job, for god’s sake. No, he won’t stay for 20 years and build the program, but UI would be better before he left.

Art Vandelay -

Dont compare Bruce Weber and Lou Henson.

Weber was handed a porsche, and turned it into a clown car.
Henson didnt even have a car. He had a bike that he turned into a nice sports car.

Dont compare Brad Stevens and Bruce Weber either.
Stevens took Butler to 2 consecutive final 4s, while Weber at the same age was a nothing asst at Purdue.

Bad post Art.
Leave the scout posts at scout.

This blog is more intelligent than that.

–I grew up near Carbondale, so I think I’ve supported Weber longer than most; but I think the scales were removed from my eyes last year when we dropped that game to Indiana. What other respected program struggles so heartily against last-place teams???

–This year would be the *perfect* year for him to go, IMO. We already have this freshman class in, and the next class is very weak, so no worries about losing a big-time recruit with the transition . . . and if we have a highlight hire, maybe you can a) make something of this talented freshman class, and b) maybe have a chance in hell of grabbing Jabari Parker. No way does he come to a coach who’s playing barnburners with the likes of PSU and Nebraska.

–But that’s not going to happen. We all know how this season is going to go: 10-8 (or 9-9) in the Big Ten, with the usual late-season mediocrity (to follow up to the mid-season mediocrity), win a game or two in the B10 tourney, sweat it out on Selection Sunday, get an 8 seed, lose a close one in the first round. Just enough to keep his job, knowing full well that Mike Thomas is not going to fire Weber after a) firing the football coach, and b) the inevitable departure of Jolette Law. No way do all 3 go in the same year, especially in a recession.

–So, friends, it seems that we’re stuck for the time being. Yes, it seems odd to be so down in the midst of a 15-4 season, but the fact that I get that awful feeling in the pit of my stomach each time we play a bad team says it all, at least for me . . .

–Finally, if we were able to pull out a hire of Stevens, I can foresee similar grumblings a few years down the line: can’t recruit, too much emphasis on defense, sluggish offense (c.f. national championship game 2011) . . . no? Very hard to be critical of the hire of someone who took a mid-major to two straight championship games (amazing), but I think we’re all sick of watching games played in the 50s. I say we try to wrest Thad Matta away from OSU, and bring him home!

Heath… I think you make some great points, particularly regarding Henson. But Illinois isn’t the only good program who struggles against bottom half Big Ten teams. Michigan State always struggles against Northwestern. They just lost at NU last week; we won at NU this year. MSU has lost to Penn State recently too. I’m not trying to excuse Weber or the Illini from losing to PSU, because it drives me absolutely insane too, but it’s not that unique of a situation.

Heath-

In 2010-11, Butler averaged 71 points.
In 2009-10, Butler averaged 69 points.
In 2008-09, Butler averaged 68 points.
In 2007-08, Butler averaged 69 points.

Where does this nonsense about Stevens not being able to recruit? The guy is probably among the top 10 “name” coaches out there. He’s been able to put 2 of his recruits at Butler into the NBA in 4.5 seasons there.

Last time the Illini took the top mid-major rising star in college basketball as coach, it was a guy coming off an Elite 8 at Tulsa.

Were there recruiting questions around Bill Self?
I dont think there were any.
People were just excited about getting a great coach.

Brad Stevens has had way more success so far than Bill Self did at the same age. So anyone that wouldnt be excited about getting him is nuts.

The only people I see putting Brad Stevens down are the ultra Weber homers because they cant admit that Brad Stevens IS actually everything that the Weber homers claim Weber to be, but really isnt. Or, the people that dont like Brad Stevens are just blatant racists that only believe black kids will play for black coaches.

Thad Matta’s not coming to Illinois. C’mon.

Weber had to go…
Brad Stevens isn’t the answer…
Anthony Grant is…

Heath, your projection for the remainder of the year is probably spot on… unfortunately. .
Art, you fail to take into account the trajectory of the program over the last 5-6 years. You can’t deny there is a considerable portion of the fan base disaffected with Weber right now. At some point it gets tough to move the program forward in that situation. It’s showing up in attendance clearly.
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Art- you have an awesome user name

Joe John, thanks for the response. Clearly you’re more on top of Butler than myself . . . just my two recent memories of that team are that stinker of a championship game and the current struggles they’re having now. I’ll defer to you . . . . I’m just hoping that the Big Ten will someday move in a direction of coaches that emphasize even the *occasional* fast break layup or trying to put up more than 55 points in a game.

And Matta was just an aside . . . wishful thinking. Yeah, he’s not coming, I know that. A good day to you.

Anthony Grant.
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Didn’t know anything about him.
Did a little reading.
Interesting guy.
He’s on my list now.
For all thats worth, lol..

Robert or anyone,

Why does rivals seem to rank every single football recruit 3 stars? Are they that lazy?
I was perusing the prospect lists and it seems like every recruit just automatically gets 3 stars. Very few get 4 or 5, and very few get 1 or 2…yet everyone is a 3?

Whats the deal?

Weber is simply not the solution. He knows it. We know it. Thomas knows it. The arrow isn’t pointing up, I’m not even sure it’s pointing sideways anymore. It’s time to move on.

Yesterday’s game was brutal. Once again, a constant struggle to score points and build a decent lead. This is looking bad. Wisconsin almost never beats us in Champaign. And this is not a good Wisconsin team. The players don’t know what else to try on offense, and the coaches don’t know what else to tell them to try. Weber is dumbfounded after every game. He has no answers. And sadly, it’s been like this for years. Different players, same performance. It’s maddening.

BW should probably be go before another recruiting class gets spoiled by our stagnant program…

I’m as frustrated as anyone else by the lack of expected wins but my frustrations are more about recruiting which have impacted wins. I don’t think people understand the value of a good pg. That is exactly what’s been missing since Dee and Deron left. Some point to DMac but seriously…think of what we could have seen with him paired up with a good pg who had the skills and a bit more toughness. This team this year would be a much smoother team that was enjoyable to watch if we had such a player. There’s enough talent at all other positions(finally) to do some damage but it means nothing without a good pg. Sorry but TA and SM just aren’t it for consistent expectations.

This is all on Weber. People can criticize his game plans and offense all they want but it’s not about schemes. Players have to make plays no matter what and when you don’t have a good B10 quality pg a team suffers. I actually think Weber is a great x’s and o’s coach even if it’s not always enjoyable to watch. The guy just hasn’t been able to recruit the players he needs across the board to make things work the way they should.

Having said that I’m not calling for his dismissal just yet. The guy has been addressing the issues and I’m the type of guy who believes that if someone has been addressing their problems you give him a chance to coach those improvements. I couldn’t wait until last season’s crew was gone and I’ve liked what I’ve seen this semester. They’re playing about how I expected for as young as they are and while many criticize the staff and team they do show a nice upside unlike previous years. If anything this team fits the mold of playing to it’s competition because of lack of experience and maturity. Previous to this those teams lacked maturity and toughness.

I think there are a number of reasons that will keep Weber around for one more year. If he doesn’t show much progress in the 2012-13 season, I’m confident he’ll be gone. The only way he’s gone this season is if something huge happens. If he doesn’t make the ncaa, that could do it but I actually feel good that they’ll make it in even if it’s a bubble team…the B10 is too strong.

As for the calls for Brad Stevens I’d be curious to see how well he recruits. As with a lot of schools it seems like someone takes over a program and they make nice runs in the tourney only to fizzle once those first few years run out. While Stevens was an asst at Butler prior to being HC, those players were coached fundamentals that made them who they were when he then unleashed them with style. Weber did the same with the ’05 crew. You see it in bball and football. I believe this was one reason that Illinois never went after Matta. He had no resume after taking over a program for a few years…now he does. I’m not saying that we wouldn’t go after Steven’s now because we’ve got a different AD than back then but I’m personally not thrilled about getting someone who’s unproven at running a program longer than 4 years at a consistently high level. If Illinois is the high level program that some here believe, it shouldn’t be a problem to find a coach that has that resume even if it is at the mid-major level.

Techslacker… I agree that a good point guard is key. I think that with the ’09 recruiting class, Weber was hoping that one of these “combo guards” could play the point. And honestly, if one of the three could be a backup PG, I think it’s Bertrand. He takes care of the ball much better than Paul. But anyway, what I was going to say is this: We better hope that Abrams gets a lot better and can be our PG of the future and/or Orris is a very, very good player. If not, where does our point guard come from? And don’t say this Latulip kid. He’s a walk-on.

Techslacker, by trial and error and enough time, anybody in the world might figure it out. The problem is that the well has been poisoned. The free passes are all used up. It’s all on Weber and always has been. He’s lost the trust of the majority of the fanbase. Weber had his chance and didn’t capitalize. It’s beyond repair right now. A change is required for the good of everyone involved. Weber needs a change of scenery and we need to move in a different direction. I wish Weber the best, it’s just got to be elsewhere.

JoeJohn-
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To answer your question about 3-stars, in the late 2000′s Rivals and Scout started adding more and more 3-stars. I believe I read somwhere that the number of 3-star football recruits nearly doubled from 2002 to 2012. Part of it I think was competition – fans flock to the service that gives their team more 3-star players.
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Rivals gets around this with their point system. A 5.7 three-star is a much better player than a 5.5 three-star. I almost see Rivals as having a 10 point scale. Five-stars are 10′s, four-stars are 7′s, 8′s and 9′s, three stars are 4′s, 5′s, 6′s, two-stars are 2′s, 3′s, and 4′s, and no-stars makes you a 1.