Slapdash March 8, 2013
It’s 1:39 am as I’m starting this. Doing the Thursday night bachelor party/Friday night rehearsal dinner/Saturday afternoon groomsman thing this weekend. Drank a big Mountain Dew to stay awake on the way home from the end of the bachelor party, which was poker at the groom’s house. I’m so incredibly bad. Flop is 2-8-10, and I stay in and go head-to-head with some dude because I have A-2. But hey, I paired the 2! (He paired the 8. And the 10.)
I have to take my son in early tomorrow, which means my alarm will go off four hours and 11 minutes from now. Feels like the perfect time to slapdash.
Deleted Post
Several of you have asked why I deleted my Iowa postgame post without publishing it. Well, because it was bad. So defensive and excuse-y. Here, I’ll go dig the opening out of the trash bin and post it:
You ever have one of those posts where you know it’s a bad idea as soon as you start typing but you just go ahead and post it? Wait, maybe 7 of you write words about Illinois sports on the internet (HI LOREN). What a horrible post opening. I should start over. Probably won’t.
I made a statement on Twitter after the game saying that Iowa is better than us but will go to the NIT (at 9-9 in the conference) while we go the the tournament (at 8-10 in the conference) simply because of scheduling. And a bunch of people reacted strongly to this statement (OK, maybe 7). Which surprised me. Iowa just beat us by eight and will finish ahead of us in the Big Ten standings, yet claiming they’re a better team is somehow controversial?
So I went and checked out Twitter and some of the message boards and I see all kinds of anger. Claims that we’re back on the bubble. That this was the most frustrating game in two years. I mean, I HATE losing to Iowa. I was in Champaign for the Pearl affair. Iowa basketball single-handedly ruined my five years of hoops in Champaign. But most frustrating game in two years? Iowa was favored by 4 points. Sure, our offense was bad, but 12 blocked shots had something to do with that (as did one dunk that the rim blocked).
I’m all over the place and nowhere near my point. Which always means I need to back up and retrace my steps.
It rambled on from there. Yet another post retracing our steps over the season and looking at 21-10 as a great success. And several excuses as to why we lost to Iowa.
Given two days to think about the game, I’ve changed my tune a bit. That loss was just bad. Iowa opened so many doors and we looked around at each other to see who would go through them. Yes, they’re much improved, and are probably a solid tournament team next year. But without their point guard, and with all those turnovers, we shoot in the 20′s? Man, that was gross.
Foster The People
I had that one all worked up for a big Glenn Foster game this season – was probably going to go with something like “DL needs to do work this game and dominate the Purdue offensive line; in other words, we need to Foster their people” – but then the season went south and when that happens, I lose all creativity.
But I’m not surprised Foster had a big pro-day today (enough to get on the first page of NFL.com’s draft page as scouts scramble to find out how some guy not invited to the combine put up big agility numbers). When you watch him on the practice field, he kind of looks like a big tight end out there. Very agile and quick on his feet. And he can do all kinds of ninja moves too – Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks and whatnot. I think I saw him do a back handspring once, too. But maybe that was Craig Wilson.
I’m hoping he can find his way into the draft in the later rounds. For two reasons: 1) NFL teams need more ninjas, and 2) It’s always fun to have the yearly “we had four guys drafted and finished 2-10 last year?” conversation.
Dream A Little Dream
I’ve enjoyed daydreaming about future Illini basketball teams again. Ask my friends – hang out with me in 2001 or so and I’d tell you of my dream class that included Dee Brown and Steve Novak (Marquette). And if you’ve seen me on message boards here or there over the last 15 years, I could usually be found saying ridiculous things like “if we add Scheyer and Collins to Carlwell, Jamar, and Brian Randle…”
After a few years, I stopped doing that. Our recruiting had even picked up at that point, but it just still felt off. I’d lost my hope in the future. Now, with John Groce, it’s starting to return. So I found myself daydreaming today about JaQuan Lyle and Cliff Alexander both joining the 2014 class.
Let me get one thing out of the way – there’s a 7% chance both Lyle and Alexander end up at Illinois. Both are top-15 players in the 2014 class. We haven’t had a single top-15 player in twenty years. Dee Brown was the highest rated recruit of those 20 years, and he was #19 in the RSCI. Not one player ranked 1-18 picked Illinois in the last 20 years. And now I’m dreaming about two in the same year?
Yes, yes I am.
Abrams (SR)
Lyle (FR)
Hill (SO)
Alexander (FR)
Egwu (SR)
Henry (SR)
Nunn (SO)
Colbert (SO)
Eight RSCI guys. Two McDonald’s All-American freshmen. Other glue-like pieces such as Rayvonte Rice and Jaylon Tate. Man, what an incredible team that would be. Too bad it’s just a dream.
But the crazy thing is, JaQuan Lyle is supposed to trim his list to six this weekend, and I’m fully confident we’ll be on it. A player from Indiana (where we haven’t landed a player in 25 years), a top-15 player (which we haven’t landed in 20 years), and here I sit, confident we’ll be on his final list.
That’s why I’ve started daydreaming again. With Groce, it kind of feels possible.
Hopefully we aren’t peaking right now in his recruitment. Alexander and Egwu w/Morgan off the bench would be so much better than what we have right now.
I don’t know that I’d be doing backflips over being on Lyle’s list of 6. That’s a long way from him showing up on campus. We’ve been on a lot of lists over the past few seasons, and it doesn’t mean much.
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Plus he’s from Indiana. Not happening.
Lyle is overrated. He will not play point guard in college. He’s way too slow. I’d describe him as a play making Jerry Hester. Hester was a scorer not a shooter, ok athlete not great, about 6’5 or 6’6. Thats really what Lyle is, except he’s a very good passer. I’ll be surprised if Lyle doesnt end up at IU. He enjoys the recruitment process so expect him to go down to signing day and make multiple visits in the fall.
The guy Illinois should be after is East St Louis Deshawn Munson. This kid is 6’3, excellent athlete (better than Lyle), and every bit the playmaker. He’s the type that goes to a smaller school, puts up great numbers, and everyone wonders why the big boys passed on him. I would take Munson in a second at PG. He’s way better than Jaylon Tate and I like him better than Lyle. Munson plays with a chip on his shoulder. Lyle is soft.
And Robert, if you are acknowledging that Iowa is a better team than Illinois, how can you at the same time still say Groce did a great job this year? Have you compared the talent level or experience between Iowa and Illinois? There’s a disconnect between wanting to praise John Groce, yet still acknowledging the results he led the team to. You cant have the former without the latter, and the latter doesnt support the former. If you just say, “Groce did an acceptable job this year”, I could buy it. I cant buy “I love these results” after finishing 8th in the Big 10.
I’ll say that I am delighted with the job that John Groce has done. Can he do better? Yes, and he would tell you so himself. I see this year as a great building block to the future that he will be central to.
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Why? It is generally fun to watch Illinois basketball again. The team seems energized most of the time and eager to play for him. He is building ambassadors for his program with the guys that play for him now. The style of his conversations, the number of exceptional players he has made meaningful inroads with already, the way they play the game, these things are all pointing in the direction that I want from what is entertainment for me.
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I won’t contrast that with the styles of play, whether it be postings or basketball, that I find unattractive. But there are many fine examples of that as well. I like John Groce. Other Johns, not so much.
I heard that Munson has serious grade issues. Probably why many, including Illinois, have passed on him, JJ.
I “dislike” Iowa BB and that is putting it mildly. Davis and Pearl were scum to pull what they did. Davis rarely gets mentioned in the Deon fiasco, but he had to know and approve of Pearl’s action.
So, these players were not even born when the Deon nightmare happened. Why did they play sooooo badly at IA? Did Groce not have them primed to play? IL “IS” the better team. We play IA three times and we win twice. It truly is one of the worse BB games in recent memory. And if we lose to OSU our seed will continue to slip. We were on the cusp of moving UP to a 6 or 7 slot. That looks bleak now.
Not grade issues. He was labeled uncoachable last year because his grandmother made a big stink about the coach suspending him, and the school board ended up firing the coach.
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Sweet Jesus, are we going to have daily “John Groce is/isn’t good” conversations? He’s not getting fired anytime soon. Move on.
Grogs,
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I agree.
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There should be some sort of ban against calling for a coaches head or even stating he should have an extension until at least 2 years into his contract. Maybe even 3…
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It just isn’t fair to judge a coach based on players/atmosphere that he didn’t have control over. Even if the players and atmosphere are a GOOD thing. (See Weber, Bruce)
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Let’s table it and talk about it after each coaches 2nd full season. (I 100% know this won’t happen)
Cabana Joe John:
How many times have you seen Lyles play? Where and when? What about the kid from EStL? Where and when? I’m curious as to your basis for the assertion that Lyles is “overrated.”
Next, Illinois will finish no worse than a tie for 7th, and it’s a tie for 6th if they win tomorrow. They didn’t finish 8th.
Finally, what should I tell abuck75 about the $100 that you owe him?
Thanks,
GMAW
GMAW, you’ve really got to let the hounding him about the bet go.
I’m not saying he isn’t Cabana Joe (I have no idea). But following him with it every time there’s a new post isn’t productive and goes against the new rules Robert established.
I got Illinois for 8th place after Ohio State wins tomorrow. I also got Illinois down for not winning another game this year. Illinois wont beat a healthy Minnesota team, and dont see them winning a NCAA game either.
If you are the 8th seed in the Big 10, then you finished in 8th place.
You want to argue 7th, i could just as easily argue 9th. Its ridiculous either way.
The truth of the matter is that Illinois will have finished with a better Big 10 record than only 3 teams (Nebraska, Penn State, Northwestern). If simply being better than the worst is doing a good job, well again that says more about where Illinois is right now than anything.
I dont feel the need to respond to anyone questioning my evaluation of recruits I’ve seen when they themselves cant even spell their names right.
Here’s two of Jaquan LYLE games:
http://www.citylinktv.com/Evansville
And Robert, if you are going to abide by your rules then dont you have to ban this idiot? Or at least delete all his posts. He shouldnt be allowed to post for simply signing his name at the end. Who does that clown act?
GMAW emailed me to ask if it was OK to ask you about the bet here. I said yes.
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I was asked by a former mod at another message board to verify your ISP back in December. Something about a post you made over there, and how it related to something you said here, and he wanted to verify if it was the same person before taking action. I confirmed to him that the ISP’s were the same.
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And that doesn’t violate any of the rules I’ve laid down. I very much appreciated GMAW asking if it was allowed before commenting here. If you’re looking to me to be the judge, I’m saying I’ll allow it. And the witness should answer the question.
And the plot thickens…
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Also, one thing I really want to see again (hopefully by 2014) is more depth. It’ll be great when we don’t have to gas our starters against Nebraska or Penn State because: A. We are beating them by double digits, and B. we have a capable enough 2 deep to keep them from getting back in the game.
Thats great if you want GMAW to spam your messageboard.
Its yours, to each their own.
But ISPs dont really mean much. I can literally post from anywhere.
In fact, i think right now i’m posting from Brazil.
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Because when you think of who might be “spamming the messageboard”, the first person who comes to mind is GMAW. In the words of the great Nipsy Russell, “Riiiiiiiiiiiiight”.
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That is the funniest thing I’ve read in a while.
Beating OSU would change the discussion yet again, but Cabana Putz is never wrong so I guess the seedings are a lock.
Then I guess your time here has come to a close, JoeJohn. I’ll give it 24 hours to think about it – I’ve never banned anyone here besides the Russian spambots trying to sell viagra (in Russian), so I’d need to think about what door I’m opening – but I’m afraid this whole deal proves once and for all that you have no interest in participating.
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So that others understand, I’ve sent Joe several emails in the past. Each time I tell him the same thing – you could be a fantastic “not so fast my friends” checkpoint to my hopeful fandom if you just dropped the act. Post from a place of honesty, not spin. Acknowledge your opponents point; trump with your own. Just take the intellectual dishonesty out of it.
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But this scenario – a mod from another site asked to confirm his ISP, so I know he’s the person who placed this now infamous bet (someone cornered him on his negativity and placed money on the Illini winning certain games this Big Ten season, and he bet them we wouldn’t) – followed by a response of “I could be posting this from Brazil”, shows me once and for all that Joe will never attempt what I’ve emailed him about so many times. He’s here to troll, and that’s that.
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So I guess I have to ban him. Like I said, I’ll wait 24 hours before making a decision. But I really can’t see any other out. Joe may have been banned from most of the other Illini sites, but I always felt like he could hang around here and be the Salieri to my Amadeus (and I mean that as a compliment). But this whole deal – it just cements for me that you can’t appeal to his intellect. And that’s what I’ve always wanted this site (and the comments) to be about.
It would be fantastic if he’s done here. As you said, it’s just an act. Disappears when the going is good, always tries to find the negative with everything, and a lot of the time it’s not based in fact. Not everything here is going to be unicorns and rainbows, but I think all of us would be calling out Illinois when they need it, or being negative, whatever. We’re Illinois fans. It’s not like this place is overwhelmingly positive. No one dislikes someone simply because they have the opposing viewpoint. But the comments have went from healthy debate to complaining and attacking due to his posting. Not good for the blog. He’s not even a fan – nothing is ever positive, rooting for the worst…who tries to come up with ways of how we could miss the tournament? What is the point of that?
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Finally, I don’t know anything more about this bet than what I’ve read on here, but that’s a pretty clear indication of what needs to happen. He had no idea you actually looked up the ISPs, you nailed him on it, and he has no out now.
Somewhat fitting, perhaps, that this decision is being contemplated under the title of “Slapdash.”
I wish scUM luck today as a win could result in finishing tied for 4th in the B1G (according to Joe John logic). As to recruits, your evaluation skills are notoriously poor (e.g. Leonard isn’t a B1G player), so you’ll have to forgive me if I believe the opoinions of the countless people who get paid to evaluate players over the opinion of some dope from the Internet. Finally, you heard Robert: what should I tell abuck75 about the $100 you owe him? (if you don’t remember, the bet was an over/under on how many wins UI would have against IU, MSU, Michigan, Minnesota, and OSU. You took under 1.5 for $100. We won 3.)
Robert, thats fine.
You want to ban me, go right ahead.
The basketball season is almost over, so there’s going to be nothing to talk about. anyway. I think even you have accepted that Illinois football is in the toilet for 2013, so there’s nothing for me to convince you of.
GMAW, if you dont want to accept that Lyle is overrated, thats fine. I gave you two links to two of his games just yesterday. If you think a guy that is a high dribbler, and slow on foot speed can play high level D1 PG, to each their own. Illinois isnt going to get him anyway, so who cares.